S1: EP 009: Shaping the Future of Public Policy
Download MP3Hi. What the health tech listeners? I'm your host this week, Hayley Levene. This is the podcast where we tackle some of the trending topics, ideas, and best practice in health and social care. This week, I'm joined by Lee Davies and Lottie Moore, both from Public Policy Projects.
Hayley Levene:So just a little bit about them. So Lee's worked in the world of health care and life sciences for over a decade, long time, Lee. And this time, he ran the largest health care exhibition in the country and has since moved on to public policy projects. I'm gonna say PPP from now on because it's easier.
Lee Davies:Absolutely fine.
Hayley Levene:Where he is looking to tackle some of the biggest issues in health care, environment, life sciences through better public policy. Lee's always had a passion for building meaningful partnerships and helping organizations drive better outcomes for people. Lotte has worked for PPP for several years and is particularly interested in social justice and health. She joined in January 2021 and has launched several reports on health inequality since then. She also works for professor Sir Michael Marmot at UCL, leading a network of business engaged or businesses engaged in public health.
Hayley Levene:Outside of work, Lee loves his music and sports. Big American football fan. What's your team?
Lee Davies:Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
Hayley Levene:I'm a Chicago Bears. So the only reason I'm a Chicago Bears is because I love Chicago, and I watched it while I was there.
Lee Davies:So I'm not The windy city. Yeah.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Yeah. It was freezing. Absolutely freezing. But Lee also has a passion for travelling and is keen to add to the list of countries he's been to.
Hayley Levene:Lotte enjoys reading, socialising, and running occasionally. Don't know why I hate running. So welcome to What the HealthTech. Thank you for joining us.
Lee Davies:Pleasure to be here. Yeah.
Hayley Levene:Good. I'm glad you're here. So I want to talk a little bit about PPP, find out a bit more about what you guys do, the important work that you do, and the impact that you have on the industry as well. So we're gonna come to you, Lee. So tell me a little bit about PPP.
Hayley Levene:What's
Lee Davies:it all about? So PPP, we've been going for about 25 years as an organization. Our figurehead, kind of our leader, if you like, the right honorable Stephen Dorril. The aim of the organization really is to to look at public policy and how we can, as an organization, help shape the future of of policy in specific areas. The main areas that we focus on are health care and social care, life sciences, and the environment, really.
Lee Davies:And I suppose the place that we play in in the kind of the marketplace today is we we convene people to tackle some of the toughest subjects to make sure that, you know, we can produce policies, recommendations, outputs that enable, you know, government, you know, Department of Health, people, organizations, you know, to to do their job better, I suppose. And and, you know, we we aren't always the experts, but, you know, what we like to do is convene the experts and the people that, you know, know about the subjects we're we're looking to tackle to give them the platform and and give them a voice to be able to help shape the the future of public policy, really. So, yeah, it's it's it's it's an ambitious aim as a business, but I think, yes, steady, steadily and slowly, we're starting to make inroads in some of the the areas that we we focus on as a business.
Hayley Levene:You said that you tackle some of the difficult topics in in health and social care. What what sort of topics have you been through before?
Lee Davies:So so some of the some of the issues ranging from women's health issues, you know, you know, things around abortion, contraception, in social care, you know, how to how do we that's one of the kind of that if you can fix that, that fix that is one of the holy grails of, you know, policy right now. You know? How do you how do you give people lived experience, people within the the the communities that, you know, we the government and we talk about, you know, a voice to to be able to say what's right for them. Integrated care, again, another another holy grail of, you know, of of delivery from from, you know, dating back probably when I was coming into health and social care. So, you know, for for for so for us, I mean, those those specific areas and just off the top of my head, you know, areas that we're we're tackling.
Lee Davies:And again, you can't tackle it, you know, all at once. So you have to you have to do it issue by issue and move the dial slowly and and bit by bit because you you you're not gonna change, you know, these big systems and and the way things have been done in these areas overnight, effectively. So yeah. So that that that's probably what springs to mind immediately.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Must be I can imagine. Obviously, there's that well, I say there's that many issues. There's obviously a lot of issues that the industry and the sector faces. How you say we have to tackle them 1 by 1 because you can't you can't do everything, can you?
Hayley Levene:So how do you look at the issues and go, right, this is our priority, and this is what we really need to change right now?
Lee Davies:Milosie, do you wanna do you wanna take that one?
Lottie Moore:Well, I mean, social care point is interesting. You know, when when Boris Johnson was elected, he said, you know, his big maiden speech I'm going to fix social care, you know, with 2 years on and he was clearly busy doing other things like partying. But, you know, we it that's a challenge. Right? You know?
Lottie Moore:Yeah. And that's a challenge for us because how can we facilitate that? You know, there has been a social care crisis in this country for, you know, decades, and it's it's a breaking point. So there is a there is a real demand right there for public policy, but it it's urgent. Right?
Lottie Moore:And I think, again, so, you know, social care is one issue. Health inequalities, you know, for the first time last year, life life expectancy is declining now in the UK, you know, for the in the first time in a in a 100 years. So that's another urgent issue. And I think that's how you prioritize. And the pandemic is interesting because it has suddenly really, really then honed in on what the priorities need to be.
Lottie Moore:Because before that point, you know, I don't think people necessarily were aware of what public health was, and that's a lot of what we do is is is kind of population health, public health. And I'd say again, you know, the kind of integrated care stuff, you know, ICSs are being legislated for in July, but it's gonna be years years before that system is is working properly. So, again, how can PPP, help convene, the right people to make the right choices now that will therefore impact, you know, patients later down the line. I think that's probably how how we prioritize.
Hayley Levene:How difficult is it working with with politicians and and the government, but also balancing that you wanna help, but you also need to keep in mind that the government does have priorities? And, like, how
Lottie Moore:does that work? So we're we're independent. So we don't, you know, we don't subscribe to any political agenda. And as Lee mentioned before, everything we do is evidence based. So my my my feeling is that if everything you do is based on evidence and you have experts by, you know, experts through academia or experts through experience in a room, you can't go that far wrong in terms of policy.
Lottie Moore:Right? It you know, I'm quite confident that the policy that we produce is more, is is is is stronger because it's evidence based rather than subscribing to a particular ideology. I don't know whether you'd you'd add to that in terms of how we, you know, we work kind of in the widest sphere.
Lee Davies:No. I I agree. And I think, you know, in in the space that we operate in, I think it is about, you know, developing policy that ultimately has, you know, better outcomes for people for for, you know, getting a diagnosis for disease, you know, better once you've been diagnosed, how do you, you know, how do you find treatments? You know, if there isn't a cure, how do you manage, you know, manage those things when, you know, when you've, you know, you come through the system. So I think, you know, we're we're our our heart, I suppose, you know, as an organization in the in the policy areas that we operate in is in the right place.
Lee Davies:So so as Lottie said is, you know, as long as we're convening the people, you know, that impactful and matter to whatever area we're looking to to talk about and, you know, create policy for. We're on the right track. And, you know, we'll probably touch on it in a in a bit, but, you know, that's how we we look to find partners, you know, commercial partners, industry partners, you know, that almost see that value proposition and and want to, you know, join a movement in terms of changing that that policy in that landscape. Because lots of the time, you know, you can't change policies without, you know, industry, you know, commercial businesses, you know, 3rd sector, you know, the providers that, you know, that that operate in the system. So we just operate in this middle ground space that that looks to connect all these, you know, disparate organizations and groups that that actually, when you bring them together, actually, you find that there's some seriously, you know, strong common ground.
Lee Davies:And there isn't always a consensus and you never get that. But the idea is to, you know, to find the the the the strands that people can agree on and how once agreed, we can, you know, move forward, you know, you know, better better public policy. But ultimately, just better delivery of care for, you know, people and, you know, the in society, predominantly, obviously, in the UK.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. I think we've been working with PPP for around 6 months now. So the whole of radar health care, lots of different people in our organization have been getting involved in some of these groups and kind of and what I've loved the most is how open and how how nonjudgmental these conversations are. So, you know, that you've you've got forums where you can sit in and and discuss the challenges. And you've you don't just have the industry.
Hayley Levene:You have patients. You have people that look after patients. You have I think I was sat on 1, and there was a a parent of a patient. And it's just so good to to be able to have an impact on those people with those those stories. And, you know, we've loved kind of been involved in this so far because I feel like we are able to kind of make an impact and influence some of those discussions and bring in our expertise as well.
Hayley Levene:And I think it's just a really nice nice thing that you're doing. Thank you. Welcome. So Lottie, policy analyst, what does a day look like for you?
Lottie Moore:Well every day is different.
Lee Davies:But as I class in a good way? You
Lottie Moore:know a lot of what we do. So we know as well as health and social care we work life sciences and also environment and and the climate. So I think a lot of what we do is is I suppose kind of going kind of brainstorming as a group. You know, there's a lot of kind of creativity. You know, what what did you, you know, read on the news this morning that that made you think, oh, that, you know, that's a problem.
Lottie Moore:What are we gonna do? Well, how can we do something about that? You know, is there is there an appetite for that? And then I think as well when you, you know, you're actually delivering policy or creating these policies, you know, so a lot of research, you know, writing stuff. I often sort of I hold myself up in a coffee shop and put my head of office on because at some point, you know, you've gotta write you've gotta write the reports and and produce the kind of outputs.
Lottie Moore:So I think, yeah, every day every day is different. There's a lot of networking. There's meeting people. There's, you know, we've been talking about convening where, you know, how do you know you're convening the right people? Because you could go find them, you could talk to them.
Lottie Moore:You know, so I think, you know, there's networking, and and it's a very, very, a really sociable
Hayley Levene:job. That's good. That's what you want, isn't it? You don't wanna be locked in a room on your own. No.
Hayley Levene:Trying to
Hayley Levene:figure out life.
Lee Davies:We don't do that at PPP just to to be true.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. So coming back to, the way you prioritise policies and and kind of decide what the best approach is. For you, what what does success look like? What's a good policy? How do you work through that?
Lee Davies:That's a big, big question for me to to answer. Do you wanna start and then I can I I will take over when,
Lottie Moore:like,
Lee Davies:4 minutes and so?
Lottie Moore:I think you like you only start doing you know, we only take this stuff on because we do want to make a difference. But I think it would be it'd be wrong to assume that the government is the only audience that we want to influence. That's not true. You know, for example, with our ICS futures series that we're launching, you know, we're bringing ICS leaders together because we want ultimately that decision makers at the moment or what they will be.
Hayley Levene:Mhmm.
Lottie Moore:So how can we create discussions that that that impact the way that they work going forward. So and ultimately then, it is making a difference to people's lives. You know, with health inequality, for example, which is, you know, my my kind of, like, super interest, is ultimately, you know, it is it's not it's not right that a baby born in, Gateshead will live 15 years less than a baby born in Guildford. That's not okay. So I wanna do something that that ultimately reduces that statistic, which might seem idealistic, but you don't go into a kind of policy role.
Lottie Moore:You know, policies, if they are right and good they can change lives and I think that's ultimately why I kinda get out of bed in the morning, what success looks like for me at PPP.
Lee Davies:Yeah. And I think I think, you you know, my background, you know, I didn't come from the policy landscape and, you know, my understanding and develop I've developed and formed my own ideas about what good policy looks like. And there were policies that are are driven at government level. You know, I'm trying to pass legislation, but, you know, that takes a long time to be able to to to get those those dials to move. But for for for for me, you know, there's this policy that from an organizational perspective, what can organizations to do, businesses do to to to enhance the the lives and and, you know, and and what people can, you know, the health outcomes, I suppose, you know, our health inequalities work.
Lee Davies:We have a program around what businesses can do, you know, and that's not aimed at the NHS per se, but what can, you know, businesses anchor institutions as in as employers? You know, what can they look out for to make sure that their staff, their employees, you know, that that they're not suffering from health inequity? And how can they intervene as
Hayley Levene:a business as a as a as a,
Lee Davies:you know, as a as a kind of employer to, you know, to to to help, you know, the system. Because, actually, if they could do that, the burden on social care, the burden on, you know, the NHS will be reduced if we can change the role of the business and get businesses and, you know, lots of businesses have, you know, people and culture directors now, and that's the right route to go down. Because if you can take care of your employees, you know you know, they can actually go to a GP appointment, you know, actually, that how can we create policy just within that framework to be able to, you know, to, you know, to help the the outcomes of the the people and that they, you know, the the patients that, you know, the NHS has to has to has to speak to and and deal with.
Hayley Levene:There's so many there's so much that you guys can do, and it's there's there's just such a huge impact that you could have, but I can imagine it's such a big beast. Like, where do you go? Who do you talk to? How do you get the policies put, like, approved? What does what does the process look like for that?
Hayley Levene:Yeah. I mean that's
Lottie Moore:a really interesting question. You know, there's not really a standard formula. Mhmm. Everything's very different depending on what the topic is and also what the time frame is. So I suppose our our we go to the when we start right at the beginning, it's it's looking at what, you know, from a, I suppose, a a wider societal perspective, you know, is is what's going on in the world.
Lottie Moore:Is there a gap? Is there a niche that's not being filled that we could fill? And then I guess it's, you know, it's it's finding the appetite for that, you know, commercially as well, you know. People, businesses that genuinely, you know, care about the agenda and want to get involved. That's really important.
Lottie Moore:And then I think, you know, we start by then, you know, looking and scoping and finding people and then, you know, as you've been on our roundtable sessions, you know, bringing those people together in a virtual room or a physical room. But, you know, that we were saying earlier actually how amazing that, the sort of virtual world can be in terms of you know, we've got people dialing into most of our sessions like entirely internationally which she just wouldn't have done 2 years ago really. Mhmm. And therefore the kind of scope of what you can do is is much greater. And then I think as I said earlier, there is the the kind of collating all of that data into a document that is really, really clear.
Lottie Moore:So, ultimately, whoever you're trying to influence, you know, whoever whatever change we we we we we we found is is evidence based and is right. The the person doesn't have to do the work because we've already done it. Do you see what I mean? I think that's that's really key.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Yeah. And just just I
Lee Davies:mean, just to add, I mean, some policy areas are years away of changing, but some policy areas are so live. You know? So we have to be quite reactive at points to, you know, if if we see, you know, a piece a piece of, you know, something come through the news, we have to react, you know, to to it there and then. Because actually, you know, policy moves quite quickly in some if the demand's there. And, obviously, COVID, I suppose, you know, going back to March 2020, you know, it moved the dials on so many different things.
Lee Davies:And, obviously, you know, you made our work in the health tech space. And now the adoption of technology, you know, you know, exasperated, you know, the adoption of of of what was really hard, sometimes hard to, you know, you know, you know, adopt products or services. And and now actually policy moved quickly because there was a demand, there was a need, and there was no other option but to move with the with the with the with the way of the world. Whereas if that hadn't happened, you know, we'd still be stuck in some of the the oldest structures, systems, technologies that, you know, were still being used. But, you know, sometimes policy moves so fast because of an issue of a pandemic that that, you know, you just we as an organization would would, you know, track that and move along with that because otherwise we wouldn't be a good policy institute if we didn't.
Hayley Levene:It's true. Do you find that a lot where, it's kind of no other option and people have to uptake? It has to happen.
Lee Davies:No. I I I I I think COVID was just it's a
Hayley Levene:A one off.
Lee Davies:It was a one off. You know? I think but I think, you know, the lessons learned will enable, know, future programmes, future, you know, technologies, future, the ways of working, delivering care to to get better. And so, you know, the example will be different. But, you know, I think there is a there is a, you know, there's a real appetite now for for people that actually change can happen.
Lee Davies:You know? And and and now we have a test case of a huge transformational piece, you know, that that transform the way the entire world works. Now we were talking on the train up to today about teams. And, you know, 2 years ago, I just had a, you know, a phone and a headset. You know, now all of my meetings, all of my telephone calls, you know, aren't telephone calls.
Lee Davies:They're they're they're Teams meetings, their Zoom meetings, their Google Meets for the odd person that uses uses it. You know, it's it's it's I I it's transformed the way we work, and I think, you know, that will only continue to change. But in health and healthcare and life sciences, it is a bit slower. But you know, we we just need to be the champions of the areas we work in, to make sure that we can continue to drive drive changes, however small those changes might be, you know, along the way.
Hayley Levene:True. So partnerships director, like I said, we have really enjoyed working with you guys so far. It's been I think it has been a partnership. It's not been a a one way thing at all. What about other organisations like Radar Healthcare?
Hayley Levene:How can they get involved? What's open to them? How can you how can we make an impact?
Lee Davies:Who? I think for me, it's we have a list of areas. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, go into a rare diseases, oncology, you know, in life sciences and social care and health care. I think if you have a, you know, an ambition as a business to, you know, to to to move agendas forward, you know, ultimately, you're a commercial business, you know, there was there was a need to to want to be in the room, you know, some of these strategic conversations. But, you know, we we we kind of own the fact that actually, you can't move forward without commercial intervention and commercial input.
Lee Davies:You know, so so so if businesses will haven't haven't have a desire to, you know, have, you know, strong meaningful conversations, then then, you know, we might not be aligned. You know, there might not be areas we we we can collaborate on. But, you know, if there if if if there is, then let's have a conversation, and we have a a list of things that we do. But, you know, that's not to say we wouldn't explore other areas. Should should it make a difference and make make make sense to us as as an organisation and business, really.
Lee Davies:So, yeah. So just if if you're in this space and you want to learn more, just get in touch, I suppose, is the message.
Lottie Moore:I think as well with that one, you know, in terms of the the value, you know, we need businesses too because they contribute contribute something that you know, isn't is is is a is a much needed perspective. And I think, you know, particularly in terms of health and the work that I do, if 80% of people are employed in the private sector, it is foolish to think that it is only the responsibility of the public sector to look after that 80%. Businesses do have to be in the room. You know, they do have a role. And I think particularly after COVID again, and in terms of health inequality, businesses are really waking up to that agenda now.
Lottie Moore:And, you know, like you said earlier, you know, how can we look after the health and well-being of our employees? That's a quite a new thing for businesses to be involved in, and I find it really exciting watching that.
Hayley Levene:And and so just
Lee Davies:just to add, it's that, you know, it's it's about job creation, wealth creation. You know, the the more wealth, the more jobs that are created, the less poverty there is. You know? So for us, you know, bringing that that business voice to the table is essential because it will only help, you know, on on the, you know, and support the the systems that we have, you know, predominantly here in the UK is is is where we operate. But, you know, that that kind of piece for us is quite important, and it's kind of a common theme.
Lee Davies:Actually, you see, you know, health health inequalities, we have a programme on it, but, you know, it weaves throughout the entire programme of work that we have, whether we're talking about clinical trials or, you know, access to rare diseases, you know, underserved populations. If we can if we can create more jobs as a as a as a society, as a country, then then you know, that that is that the the positive effects on health care and wellness and mental health, and all of it kind of
Hayley Levene:comes as a as as as
Lee Davies:as a part of that process. So so yeah. So that's kind of a probably what I would I would add to that.
Lottie Moore:Yeah. And I think as well, you know, Stephen Archer always says, you know, if you give someone a friend, a home, and a job, you will do more for their health than you will if you're a doctor in a white coat. In the, you know, the social determinants of health is so important and actually employment is one of those. You know a massive, in you know, good health is caused by good employment. You know, people want to work in meaningful jobs.
Lottie Moore:People don't want to sit at home all day. That stereotype Contacts. I don't believe is true at all. And so actually, you know, people want to feel like they're making a meaningful contribution to society. And in turn, that affects their health and that improves health outcomes.
Lottie Moore:So, you know, that's particularly the kind of health and equality agenda and where business is really important is that businesses create those jobs and those jobs do ultimately improve people's lives and improve people's health outcomes. So I think that's particularly within the health work that we do where business is the role of business is so important.
Hayley Levene:We spoke to Big Ian. I don't know if you've heard of him. Yeah.
Lee Davies:We've heard of Big Ian.
Lottie Moore:Big Ian.
Lee Davies:I think the name is for itself. Yeah.
Hayley Levene:I'd love
Hayley Levene:to meet him.
Lee Davies:He'll be he'll be he'll be at an
Hayley Levene:event next week. I'll just see him. Yeah. Yeah. You're
Lee Davies:Biggie, and you can't miss him. There you go.
Hayley Levene:He's very tall.
Lee Davies:You're watching Biggie, and we'll see you next week.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. He'll be a bouncer as well. That's where he came from. Okay. So he yeah.
Hayley Levene:We spoke to him and he said, there are 2 types of people in the world, the helped and the helpers. And he said, if you if you don't need to be helped, then you're naturally a helper. Because like you say, people don't want to not help. They want to have an impact. They wanna they wanna help, and they want to they want to know how to help.
Hayley Levene:And sometimes even it's the smallest things. I think he he said a quote that will always stick with me, and that was, you can't help everyone or something. You can't help the 1,000, but you can make an impact on your street. I think that's just so lovely because you you don't think sometimes I think when you think about helping, it's like, I've got to do everything. I've got to give loads of money to charity, and I've got to stop my life to help people.
Hayley Levene:But, actually, it's the small things, and it's the little impacts you can have. And like you say, just be a friend. You don't need to train to be a doctor and give your whole life to it.
Lee Davies:Yeah. Agreed.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. We should go and chat to him next week. Yeah.
Lottie Moore:I look forward to meeting him.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Very interesting. Interesting man. He does a lot of great stuff. So going back to kind of health and social care, why do you think policy public policy is so important for for this industry?
Lottie Moore:Yeah. I
Lee Davies:mean, I'll start and then
Hayley Levene:I'll hand it over to Roger.
Lee Davies:I think it's so divisive. I think I think, you know, everyone, you know, in their lifetime will need health care, whether that's seeing a GP, whether that's seeing a doctor. And then in the flip side is social care, you know, whether it's whether whether it's, you know, getting getting or going into a care home, getting, you know, care at home. You know, I've had family members, you know, on all sides of the system. So so so it's it's an area that just it touches everyone at some point, even if you even if it doesn't touch you at at today or this point in time.
Lee Davies:So so so so for me, it's that area that if you're never gonna fix it, you're never gonna please everyone. But what you can do is you can you can aim and you can set the right, you know, framework to to to actually help deliver care across that spectrum. So for me, that's why we, you know, have a focus on it. And I I, you know, spent, you know, most of my very, you know, short career in this space because it is it is meaningful, you know? Yes.
Lee Davies:It's a job and it pays the bills. It. But but, you know, having conversations and being in rooms where people are trying to make a difference, it just it just enables us to have a, you know, you know, me personally, a more of a meaningful purpose to to to, you know, the work that I do. And, you know, you can hope hopefully, you know, see the passion, you know, in in the work that we do and how we present ourselves as people because, you know, it's just it's if we can fix it, then you know, mom, grand, dad, granddad, you know, their their lives might be a little bit more comfortable, you know, when when whenever they need the services, you know, that, you know, genuinely the NHS can be in it and social care can provide for them.
Hayley Levene:So Yeah.
Lottie Moore:No. I think I think the NHS is interesting as well because, you know, a lot of our work is international. And I think, you know, the NHS has this sort of national unifying body. You know, we see health in this country as a right. You know, we have a right to good health.
Lottie Moore:Internationally, that's just not the case. You know, health is a luxury. And that's why you need public policy. Because until, you know, everyone has health and they see it as a right, not a luxury, then I don't see I don't think we'll ever be out of a job because, you know, that's why you need public policy. And and even within the UK, you know Don't
Lee Davies:say that Lottie, we might. You know? Yeah. If we fix it, we take social care, we might. But, you know,
Lottie Moore:within within the UK, you know, we need, again access is not equitable. So you know that's why you need public policy and that's what health is so important. You know people always say healthy societies are happy societies. And it's true. You know?
Lottie Moore:They intersect. And I think that's, you know, that's why it's important.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Definitely. Has there been any standout moments for for both of you for where you've done something? Or you've been involved in a piece of work and you've seen the impact that it's made? Could start with you, Latic.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. I mean, yeah. I know.
Lottie Moore:So we've obviously we've done a women's health project, and we were convening group, you know, women x women and men, experts across the world to discuss I think we were talking about contraception. And and I really wanted to you worked we worked really hard to get women with lived experience, not just from the UK, but, you know, we we actually had, a medical student, from Ghana on our call. And she, joined the call, but she had her camera off and she typed into the chat, it's not safe for me to talk about this. So I'm I'm here and I'm contributing but I can only type. And that made me think gosh the scale of this problem is totally different in in, you know, in in low middle income countries than it is here.
Lottie Moore:And so that really kind of made me think, gosh, the the the reach of this work is is big. Yeah.
Lee Davies:Wow. And me. And for me, I think, you know, one of my colleagues, Anna, she she runs a rare diseases program that looks to, you know, you know, to to it's it's almost an odyssey if you have a rare disease for some people and patients, you know, to find, you know, you know, a diagnosis for what what you have and and and, ultimately, obviously, rare diseases typically don't have cures. But what we've done as part of our work is create a patient group that that sits alongside our industry, you know, industry colleagues, I suppose. And are from that patient group.
Lee Davies:We've we've now connected parents, people that, you know, have rare diseases in their in their families, their sons, their daughters, and and some of them have come friends. And I've been able to have this almost support group, you know, for through this this experience of, you know, creating a better public policy for for rare disease diagnosis effectively. So so sometimes for us, you know, that wasn't on purpose. It was it was by accident. But, you know, but sometimes, you know, that that has helped a a few individuals actually have a support network for for people to to, you know, who are going through something similar and and trying to navigate their way through what is an absolute mind field and challenge to to to, you know, to to to comprehend, I suppose, of of of, you know, because it because it because, you know, they just didn't have anywhere else to go.
Lee Davies:But we in our convening, you know, power, I suppose, just and then we had a a comment back from the the, you know, the the the the team now become really good friends. So for us, and that's one thing that, you know, I've only been here. I've been in less than a year. But for me, that's a standout moment because it's not just about the business, the organizations, the NHS, but what what we're doing for, you know, for hopefully people who are, you know, we're trying to ultimately serve. So, yeah, that's that's that's that's me.
Hayley Levene:How did how did those kind of situations make you feel when you see things like that and when you when the press picks it up and you, you know, you how how do you feel? You must be proud.
Hayley Levene:Well, no. Yeah. I mean, I
Lottie Moore:think with women's health, I I felt quite emotional because it a lot of the stuff that we're talking about, I could recognize in my own life. And with health and qualities, you know, I come at life from a multiplicity of of advantages. You know, I'm white and straight and middle class. So I don't I'm not I don't experience health inequality per se. With women's health, there were we were talking about situations where I thought, oh, yeah.
Lottie Moore:I've I've I've had that problem, you know. And I haven't really considered that that was ever a problem before. And I thought, gosh. Yeah. You know, my, you know, my friends have been heckled when they've had to get an abortion by anti abortion activists.
Lottie Moore:And so I when we produced that piece of work, I I felt quite emotional because I felt I was sort of very personally affected by it. And I hadn't had that before particularly because, you know, I'm you know, luckily, I haven't. But
Hayley Levene:yeah. Yeah. I think it's actually quite common, isn't it? I saw a woman on, LinkedIn. She's a a TV doctor, and she was talking about health inequalities for women and how women don't get the same kind of health care.
Hayley Levene:And, actually, I think I can't remember the exact percentage, but the percentage of, women that can't get the answers that they need is significant. Mhmm. And you think about you're you're having a conversation around contraception. Women have to be the contraception, you know? When you go to the doctors, it shouldn't be the case where women have to go through all of this, and it should be an equal thing.
Hayley Levene:But, you know, you as a partner should be able to have a discussion and say, who wants to take the contraception? It shouldn't, you know there are there's so many in in in in it. You know,
Hayley Levene:it's not
Lottie Moore:right. There was a, a thing a few years ago. They produced a male pill and it didn't get through clinical trials because it was too, it just it was it was considered too sort of damaging for the male to kinda go through this. The symptoms were too severe.
Hayley Levene:What about women? I know. And I was like,
Lottie Moore:well, if if the pill had been introduced to that, you know, 6 years ago, it's revolutionary.
Lee Davies:Mhmm.
Lottie Moore:But they tried to introduce them for men and it
Hayley Levene:didn't get through people's trials because no. Sorry. No.
Lee Davies:Just No. No. No. No. No.
Lee Davies:No. No.
Hayley Levene:Because the symptom men found the symptoms too difficult. So, you know, again, it's
Lee Davies:But I think society, I mean, it is, you know, obviously, now I work in this space, so I get it. Yeah. But I think, you know, to to because a society has been a certain way for so long
Lottie Moore:Yeah.
Lee Davies:It's changing people's, you know, the way their their brains operate. Yeah. And how we're trained to think from a man and and and a woman's standpoint is tough. You know, you peep people don't like change. And obviously, you know, the status quo for women is obviously not good enough.
Lee Davies:You know, it needs to improve. It needs to change. But, you know, obviously, you know, by and large, from a society perspective, obviously Yeah. Men men men aren't as as a group, you're not willing to make the the change. And obviously, I I say that, you know, obviously, you don't wanna group people into the same, you know, category.
Lee Davies:But, you know, until you understand it, until you understand why you can change the psychology behind it, You know, it's it's pretty tough to adjust your mindset.
Hayley Levene:Yeah.
Lee Davies:You know, if you if you've this is how it's always been. It's not that's just, you know, that's just my my view. And it's just yeah. It's a challenge. I think it's Yeah.
Lottie Moore:No. Definitely.
Hayley Levene:We are in 2022, though. Men need to sort it out.
Lee Davies:No. We still we still got games up.
Lottie Moore:It's internalized by women too. You know? So I think actually, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of female GPs that we've I spoke to were like, oh, I didn't know that. You know, I I didn't know that that wasn't that great. You know, I I've been describing it wrong for years.
Lottie Moore:You know? Actually, you don't need to do that check or you don't need to you know? And so I think it is internalized by women as well. So I think, like, you gender roles you played by both, you know? Yeah.
Lottie Moore:Yeah. That's true.
Hayley Levene:I think women feel when you think about taboo subjects I know we're going off topic, but it's interesting for our listeners. You think about these topics, and women feel nervous to bring things up. And and a lot of the times, you know, for a woman to go and buy a tampon, I send my boyfriend to go and get mine, and he doesn't mind. But a lot of men wouldn't do because it's, it's embarrassing. And and then the woman feels embarrassed.
Hayley Levene:If you're at work and you have to you have to mention it, it's embarrassing. And I think, you know, it's difficult. It's a difficult situation for both men and women to change their mindset that, actually, this is a normal a normal thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Hayley Levene:Alright. I'll get back on topic now.
Lottie Moore:Yeah. Yeah. That's great.
Hayley Levene:So, going back to kind of, the public policies that you work on. So were there any resources that people can get a hold of some of our listeners if they want to find out about new policies or anything that you guys are working on? Where can they look?
Hayley Levene:Yeah. I mean, just just just
Lee Davies:head to public policy projects.com, really. I mean, we have a a library of, you know, reports, policy documents that people can digest, look at, you know, try and, you know, get a couple of nuggets to take away back to their day jobs. And that's on everything from, say, health care and, you know, environment, you know, life sciences. So, yeah, just just head on over to to to pvp.com and, yeah, you'll be able to hopefully find some tools and so that can help.
Lottie Moore:Or you can listen to this podcast.
Lee Davies:Oh, that is another alternative. There you go.
Hayley Levene:We'll be sharing it. Don't worry. So finally, what's next on the agenda for you guys? What's coming up?
Lee Davies:What's coming up?
Lottie Moore:What's coming up? Gosh. I mean, we've we've got some exciting conferences.
Lee Davies:Yeah. So we have a we have a a life sciences conference in November, in Westminster. We have an environment conference in October that looks at, you know, some of the challenges around COP 27. We've got a program starting in oncology in the community diagnostic space in June. We've got a clinical kind of research project.
Lee Davies:I mean, it's probably too much to to go through today. But, yeah, we're always busy. You know, it's just it's just it's just constantly kind of just trying to just stay relevant, make sure that we're on the pulse when it comes to some of the the challenges people, organizations and sectors facing, really.
Hayley Levene:Yeah. Can, health and social care organizations or carers or doctors, nurses, can they just get in touch? Yeah.
Lee Davies:100%. Yeah. We'd really really
Lottie Moore:really love that.
Hayley Levene:Great. Well, what I'll do is, anyone that's listening to the podcast, I will put some information in there for people to get in touch if you do want to to raise an idea or or a challenge or just something you want to get involved with, really. So thank you. We have one more question for you. So this is a bit of fun.
Hayley Levene:We ask all of our guests that come on the show, what is your what the hell tech moment? Now what this means is tell me a weird and wonderful story that you've experienced in the health and social care world. Now that could be something that's really, really strange, or it could just be something that's made an impact on your life when you, you know, a really life changing thing that's just a little bit different. So I'm gonna come to you, Lee first.
Lee Davies:So mine's it it says it's a bit strange, but when I first downloaded the NHS app and I ordered my first repeat prescription using the app, you're able to see your history of subscriptions, not subscriptions. And I went back to obviously when I was a child and found the first ever prescription that I was I was I was given as a, I think, a 4 year old back in 1990 3. And it was obviously a drug I couldn't pronounce, couldn't couldn't say. But then I Googled it and it was for head lice. I can honestly say, you know, all these years later, I am head lice free.
Lee Davies:But but I found it's fascinating that, you know, even 30 years on, obviously, we sometimes say this, you know, NHS structures, we we haven't got the information, the data. But actually, I, as a patient, just through logging on found information on myself nearly 30 years prior.
Lottie Moore:Oh, crazy.
Lee Davies:You know? So so for me, it's it's I don't work in the system. Like, you know, I can't confess to be a health tech expert, but just it was for me just it was it was funny to see. So I immediately sent a screen grab and sent it to my brothers and said, you probably would have had it too, to be honest.
Hayley Levene:I think everyone has one.
Lee Davies:If you didn't have it
Hayley Levene:when you were a
Lee Davies:child, you weren't living. That's
Hayley Levene:fine. Yeah. Yeah. And what about you, Lottie?
Lottie Moore:So I only had one and I've used it in the other
Hayley Levene:women's health podcast. That's fine.
Lottie Moore:So, I would just say I am a massive technophobe. So if there's any way I can avoid using technology I will so I'm not really deserving to be on this podcast.
Hayley Levene:So that's probably my health tech moment is that
Lottie Moore:I just pick up the phone and I
Hayley Levene:ring my GP rather than going on the app
Lottie Moore:because I never remember passwords for anything. So, yeah, I'm sorry. Disappointing.
Hayley Levene:To be fair, I'm one of those terrible people that has the same password for everything because there's no way I would remember.
Lee Davies:But This is a podcast you probably shouldn't tell people. Yeah.
Hayley Levene:That's true. Yeah.
Lee Davies:You might wanna edit that then out at the end.
Hayley Levene:No. That's great. Thank you so much for joining us today. So next week, we're gonna be speaking to Rob Place and Mark Harrison. They work for Radar Health Care, big advocates for partnership working.
Hayley Levene:Rob supports our partners with training. He's our training manager, and Mark is one of our customer success managers. So I'm sure you'll have come across him at some point. Don't forget to rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you have any questions for our guests, for us, for Lee, for Lottie, then please email what the health tech at radohealthcare dotcom.
Hayley Levene:Thank you.
